martedì 14 gennaio 2014

How to recognize CHANEL perfumes.



chanel



(note: this method is valid only for bottles sporting the 4-numbers batch code)
Chanel is one of the most difficult "Maisons", when you want to date bottles, since it uses almost in every case the same 4 digits-batch code, and recycling it each time. 
And the most difficult thing is that there isn't any correlation between numbers and years.
In facts, Chanel adopts a singular method for batching: the changing of the months, instead of the years.
Let's try to explain: we have a four-numbers batch code. The only important numbers are first and second one.
Example: a bottle sports a batch code "8510".
Well, you have to consider only the first two numbers, i.e "85" (don't consider the final two) 

These two initial numbers (in this case "85") are indicating the months, and "scrolls" one after the other.
So, for example, number "85", could mean "May".
So, 86 means June.
87 means July 
88 means August 
89 means September 
90 means October 
and so on.
When you arrive at 99, the cycle restarts:
00, then:
01
02
03, and so on.
So -roughly said- every 8 years, a cycle is completed (00 to 99)

Where is the problem?
The problem is that there is absolutely NO reference for current or past years. Are we speaking about 1985 or 1997 or 2003 or 2011? It's impossible to know it, reading the batch numbers alone. 
So, you MUST know dates of launch of perfume and/or clues on the box, to date (with a minimum of accuracy) your vintage perfume.
It's important to say that -since there are no correlations with years- you will never have 100% accuracy....unless you get official statements from Chanel.

Using this method, plus the absolutely necessary clues, you can date back at least to year 1981 the most of Chanel perfumes.
(note of the author: some flaws could occurred, there could be discrepancies +/- 3 months, 
but, probably most part of the work is done.)

Let's START!

The Clues:
As in all european perfumes:
-if there are no symbols on the box, generic date is : BEFORE 1990.
-Barcode on the box appeared in 1990, so generic date is : AFTER 1990.
-Greendot on the box appeared in 1992, so generic date is: AFTER 1992.
-Short list of ingredients on the box appeared in 1998 (approximatively) until 2004, so generic date is  BETWEEN 1998 and 2004.
-Long list of ingredients (allergens) on the box appeared since 2005, so generic date is: AFTER 2004.
- and finally, the batch-numbers.

Batch numbers? Where?
Chanel batch numbers are usually engraved on the back side of the bottle near the base.
You have to twist the bottle under light to see it.

chanel
Batch number is engraved 
on the back side or bottom of the bottle
The same number is on the bottom of the box, too:
chanel
Batch number: somewhere
on the bottom of the box

(note: if you want Vintage perfumes, you should seek for bottles without the barcode on the box: that's enough. These perfumes without the barcode dated back before 1990, i.e. before any heavy "reformulation", or scarcity of ingredients)


Now:


QUICK OPERATING METHOD: 

1-First, check for clues (barcode? list of ingredients?), and calculate the generic date.

2-Then, check for batch number.

3-Finally, check this table below, and calculate the actual date.
(please, keep in mind that, in some cases, old boxes without symbols could have been "recycled" and used later)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE CHANEL BATCH CODE

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If your perfume has:
barcode + greendot + the long ingredient list :
this means YEARS 2004-2013
and the codes, dating back to 2004, are: 

if  --------- it means:
90xx ----june 2015
80xx ----august 2014
70xx ----october 2013
60xx ----december 2012
50xx ----february 2012
40xx ----april 2011
30xx ----june 2010
20xx ----august 2009
10xx ----october 2008
00xx ----december 2007
90xx ----february 2007     
80xx ----april 2006
70xx ----june 2005
60xx ----august 2004

(Let's make a detailed example, batch after batch:
70xx: October 2013
69xx: September 2013
68xx: August 2013
67xx: July 2013
66xx: June 2013
65xx: May 2013
64xx: April 2013

63xx: March 2013
62xx: February 2013
61xx: January 2013
60xx: December 2012
59xx: November 2012
58xx: October 2012
57xx: September 2012
56xx: August 2012
55xx: July 2012
54xx: June 2012
53xx: May 2012
52xx: April 2012
51xx: March 2012
50xx: February 2012
and so on)



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if your perfume has the following symbols on the box:
barcodes and greendots, but WITHOUT the long list of ingredient (allergens),
this means YEARS 1990-2004 
and the codes, dating back to 1990, are:

if------- then
50xx ---- october 2003
40xx ---- december 2002
30xx ---- february 2002
20xx ---- april 2001
10xx ---- june 2000
00xx ---- august 1999 
90xx ---- october 1998  
(roughly 1998-2004: short ingredients list, i.e "alcohol, water, perfume") 
80xx ---- december 1997
70xx ---- february 1997
60xx ---- april 1996
50xx ---- june 1995
40xx ---- august 1994
30xx ---- october 1993
20xx ---- december 1992
10xx ---- february 1992
00xx ---- april 1991
90xx ---- june 1990
(Greendots since 1992, short ingredient list only during 1998-2004)
(note: be aware, since 10xx could mean 1992 or 2000, so you should know the year of launch, the edition, the shape of the bottle, the writings, labels, short ingredients, or have some extra clue)

-------------------------------------------------------
WARNING: 
According to some, Chanel restarted again the batchcode in January 2000, so "January 2000 = 01". Differences with the code described here therefore is 4 months, since year 2000.  This hypothesis has been discussed and appears a bit questionable (HERE)
-------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if your perfume is WITHOUT any symbol on the box (no barcode, no greendot),
this means YEARS 1981 - 1990
and the codes, dating back to 1981, are:

if----then
80xx ---- august 1989
70xx ---- october 1988
60xx ---- december 1987
50xx ---- february 1987
40xx ---- april 1986
30xx ---- june 1985
20xx ---- august 1984
10xx ---- october 1983
00xx ---- december 1982
90xx ---- february 1982
80xx ---- april 1981

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Previously we recognized, batch-by-batch, year-by-year:
-GUERLAIN perfumes ( here )
-YVES SAINT LAURENT perfumes ( here )
-CHRISTIAN  DIOR perfumes  ( here )
-ARMANI perfumes ( here )
-VAN CLEEF et ARPELS perfumes ( here )
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


TUTORIAL PICTURES

Antaeus batch 5562, with long list of ingredients
generic date = after 2004:
actually = mid of 2012


chanel
Antaeus batch 2262 with barcode, 
without list of ingredients,
generic date = between 1990-2004 
actually =: beginning of 1993

chanel
Allure Homme, batch 0109, launched in 1999
= mid of 1999.

Antaeus batch 3426 with greendot, 
generic date = after 1992
 actually = beginning of 1994

chanel
Antaeus, batch 7335 without any symbol, 
generic date = before 1990
actually = beginning of 1989

chanel
Antaeus, batch 5506, with longlist of ingredients
generic date = after 2004
actually = beginning of 2012

(from Ebay) Pour Monsieur, barcode plus short list of ingredients
generic date :1998-2004
batch code 5207, actual date = end of 2003

(from ebay) Pour Monsieur, with long list of ingredients
generic date = after 2004


chanel
Antaeus, batch 6727, without any symbol
generic date = before 1990
actually = mid of 1988

chanel
Antaeus, batch 2262, with barcode, 
without long list of ingredients
generic date = between 1990-2004
actually = mid of 1993

chanel
Antaeus, batch 9146, with barcode,
but without greendot
generic date = between 1990-1992 
actually = mid of 1990.


chanel
Antaeus, batch 8501, with all symbols plus
long list of ingredients
generic date = after 2004
actually = end of 2006


chanel
Pour Monsieur, batch 5410, without any symbol on the box
generic date = before 1990
actually = mid of 1987


chanel
Egoiste, batch 9408, with barcode, without greendot
generic date  = between 1990-1992
actually = end of 1990


Egoiste, with barcode and greendot, no ingredients,
generic date = 1992-1998
batch 4116, actually = mid of 1994
(from basenotes)
Egoiste, without greendot.
generic date = before 1993
batch code 0907
actual date = beginning of 1991


chanel
Nr.5, batch 6081, long list of ingredients 
generic date = after 2004
actually = end of 2012


Nr.5, batch 0608, with barcode, without list of ingredients
generic date = between 1990-2004
actually = end of 1991 


chanel
extra clues : Nr. 5 Bottles, through decades


Antaeus, batch 1726, no symbols.
generic date = before 1990
actually = mid 1984

chanel
Antaeus, batch 4514, no symbols
generic date = before 1990
actually = mid of 1986
(thanks to Andrea Bissoli)

From Ebay, Antaeus, short list of ingredients,
generic date =between 1998-2004,
batch 4403 = beginning of 2003

(thanks to Noggs from Basenotes)
Antaeus, short list of ingredients,
generic date =  between 1998-2004
batch nr. 1702
actual date = beginning of 2002 



Nr.5, batch 6106, with barcode and greendot,
without long list of ingredients

generic date = between 1992-2004
actually = mid of 1996

Platinum Egoiste, batch 8715, with barcode
without long list of ingredients

generic date = between 1992-2004
actually = mid of 1998.

Allure, batch 1402,  with longlist of ingredients
generic date = after 2004

actually = beginning of 2009

(From Ebay) Allure, with long list of ingredients
generic date = after 2004
batch code 5301, actual date : mid of 2012.
from Ebay, Coco, long list of ingredients
batch code 4527 = end of 2011



UNUSUAL BOTTLES

batch number 09K
(thanks to hedonist222, Basenotes)

batch number FJ1
(thanks to Caoleus, Basenotes)
"American" Antaeus box
provided by Jon Wilson 
"American" Antaeus box and bottle
(with Spanish wording)
by Jon Wilson

Antaeus, unusual batch 56F in a pre-barcode box
(before 1990)
bottle by Jason Newton


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ITALIAN
Chanel è uno dei marchi più difficili, quando si vuol datare un profumo, dal momento che utilizza quasi sempre lo stesso codice a 4 cifre, e riciclandolo ogni volta, all'infinito.
La cosa più difficile, infatti, è che non vi è alcuna correlazione tra i numeri del batch-code e gli anni:
infatti, Chanel adotta un metodo singolare per i propri codici di produzione: lo scorrere dei mesi , anzich è quello tradizionale degli anni.
Proviamo a spiegare: abbiamo un codice di quattro numeri. I numeri importanti sono il primo e il secondo.
Esempio: un flacone sfoggia un codice batch. "8510" .
Ebbene, bisogna considerare solo i primi due numeri , ovvero "85" (senza prendere in considerazione gli ultimi due)
Questi due numeri iniziali ( in questo caso "85" ) stanno indicando i mesi , e si susseguono uno dopo l'altro, senza nessuna considerazione per un eventuale anno.
Così, per esempio, il numero "85", potrebbe significare "maggio" .
Quindi , 86 significa giugno.
87 significa luglio
88 significa agosto
89 significa settembre
90 significa ottobre
e così via.
Quando si arriva a 99, il ciclo ricomincia :
00, quindi successivamente:
01
02
03, e così via .
Questo significa che approssimativamente ogni 8 anni, un ciclo è completato (00 a 99, 12 numeri all'anno).

Dove è il problema ?
Il problema è che non c'è assolutamente nessun riferimento per gli anni. Stiamo parlando del 1985 o del 1997 o del 2003 o del 2011? 
purtroppo è impossibile saperlo solamente leggendo i numeri di lotto.
Quindi, è necessario conoscere le date di lancio del profumo e / o avere indizi sulla scatola, per poter datare (con un minimo di precisione) il vostro profumo Chanel.
E' importante sottolineare che, purtroppo, dal momento che non vi sono correlazioni con gli anni , che non avrà mai il 100 % di precisione .... a meno che non si ottenere dichiarazioni ufficiali da Chanel, la qual cosa è difficile!

Utilizzando questo metodo dello scorrimento dei mesi, oltre gli indizi -assolutamente necessari- è possibile risalire almeno al 1981 per tutti i profumi Chanel con il batch code di 4 numeri.
(attenzione :  ci potrebbero essere discrepanze + / - 3 mesi , ma , probabilmente, la maggior parte del lavoro è fatto.)

Mettiamoci al lavoro!

come prima cosa, gli indizi di cui tener conto, come in tutti i profumi europei :
- se non ci sono simboli sulla scatola, data generica è: prima del 1990 .
-Barcode sulla scatola: è apparso nel 1990, quindi la data generica è : dopo il 1990 .
- GreenDot sulla scatola: è apparso nel 1992, quindi la data generica è : dopo il 1992 .
-Breve elenco degli ingredienti sulla scatola (alcool, acqua, profumo): è apparso approssimativamente nel 1998 ed è durato fino al 2004, quindi la data generica è tra il 1998 e il 2004 .
-Lista lunga di ingredienti (allergeni) sulla scatola: apparsa dal 2005 , quindi la data generica è : dopo il 2004 .
- E, infine , il batch-number.

Batch number ? Dove ?
I numeri nel caso di Chanel sono generalmente incisi sul lato posteriore del flacone vicino alla base .
bisogna mettere il flacone sotto luce radente per vederli. In qualche raro caos, il numero è sul fondo del flacone.
Lo stesso numero è riportato sul fondo della scatola, sempre le stesse quattro cifre.

(attenzione: se cercate profumi vintage e NON VOLETE perdere tempo con i codici, è sufficiente cercare flaconi senza il codice a barre sulla scatola. Questi profumi senza il codice a barre infatti risalgono a prima del 1990, cioè prima di qualsiasi "riformulazione" pesante, regole IFRA, o altro.)

E adesso:

COME AGIRE STEP-BY--STEP:

1-Innanzitutto, verificare la presenza degli "indizi" sulla scatoal (codice a barre? Elenco degli ingredienti?), e calcolate la data generica.

2-Poi, verificare il numero di lotto.

3-Infine, controllare la tabelle sottostanti, e calcolare la data effettiva. Se necessario aiutatevi con le fotografie tutorial.

...ma tenete sempre conto che in alcuni casi le vecchie scatole sono state riciclate e usate anche successivamente: questo può dar luogo a fraintendimenti.

buon divertimento!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


THE CHANEL BATCH CODE

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------

se il profumo ha:
codice a barre + greendot + lista lunga degli allergeni :
significa ANNI 2005-2013
e i codici, andando all'indietro fino al 2005, sono: 

if  --------- it means:
70xx ----october 2013
60xx ----december 2012
50xx ----february 2012
40xx ----april 2011
30xx ----june 2010
20xx ----august 2009
10xx ----october 2008
00xx ----december 2007
90xx ----february 2007     
80xx ----april 2006
70xx ----june 2005

(esempio in dettaglio, batch dopo batch:
70xx: October 2013
69xx: September 2013
68xx: August 2013
67xx: July 2013
66xx: June 2013
65xx: May 2013
64xx: April 2013

63xx: March 2013
62xx: February 2013
61xx: January 2013
60xx: December 2012
59xx: November 2012
58xx: October 2012
57xx: September 2012
56xx: August 2012
55xx: July 2012
54xx: June 2012
53xx: May 2012
52xx: April 2012
51xx: March 2012
50xx: February 2012
eccetera)



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

se il profumo ha sulla scatola i seguenti simboli:
codice a barre e greendots, ma SENZA la lista lunga degli allergeni,
allora significa YEARS 1990-2004 
(se compare la lista breve degli ingredienti: dal 1998 al 2004;
se c'è il codice a barre ma non il greendot = 1990-1992 circa)
e i codici, datando all'indietro fino al 1990, sono:

if------- then
60xx ----august 2004
50xx ---- october 2003
40xx ---- december 2002
30xx ---- february 2002
20xx ---- april 2001
10xx ---- june 2000
00xx ---- august 1999
90xx ---- october 1998
(roughly 1998-2004: short ingredients list, i.e "alcohol, water, perfume") 
80xx ---- december 1997
70xx ---- february 1997
60xx ---- april 1996
50xx ---- june 1995
40xx ---- august 1994
30xx ---- october 1993
20xx ---- december 1992
10xx ---- february 1992
00xx ---- april 1991
90xx ---- june 1990
(Greendots dal 1992, lista breve degli ingredienti solo dal 1998 al 2004)
(attenzione: 10xx potrebbe significare 1992 oppure 2000: per saperlo dovete guardare gli indizi: greendot, lista ingredienti, eccetera) 


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

se il profumo è completamente senza simboli sulla scatola
allora significa dal 1981 al 1990,
e i codici, andando all'indietro, sono: 


if----then
80xx ---- august 1989
70xx ---- october 1988
60xx ---- december 1987
50xx ---- february 1987
40xx ---- april 1986
30xx ---- june 1985
20xx ---- august 1984
10xx ---- october 1983
00xx ---- december 1982
90xx ---- february 1982
80xx ---- april 1981

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Previously we recognized, batch-by-batch, year-by-year:
-GUERLAIN perfumes ( here )
-YVES SAINT LAURENT perfumes ( here )
-CHRISTIAN  DIOR perfumes  ( here )
-ARMANI perfumes ( here )
-VAN CLEEF et ARPELS perfumes ( here )
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


17 commenti:

  1. Great job as always Andre. My bottle of PMC is quite similar with the one in the last picture just it doesn't have any letters and the number is 8. So ....is an unusual one !? Ciprian

    RispondiElimina
    Risposte
    1. I think so...unless it's a fake!

      Elimina
    2. Well I hope it's not fake .....it smells great. I omitted to say that CHANEL is embossed on the bottle .

      Elimina
  2. Hello,
    This is a great blogpost, thank you very much for researching and sharing this information.
    About the Chanel batch codes, a few years ago there was a thread on Basenotes in which some members figured out the modern-day Chanel batch code. Although you and I are in agreement about the first two digits of the batch code representing the counting of months, I believe your dates might be off by some months. According to this Basenotes thread, we discovered that in January 2000, the batch code started over again from 01xx. This was confirmed when someone posted two Chanel batch codes and said that the Chanel customer service told him the date of those batch codes, which fits in with the code starting at 01xx in January 2000. Here is the quote from the poster in the Basenotes thread:

    “Chanel identified the following codes for me from my Egoiste bottles:
    5401 = June 2004 France
    2002 = August 2001 (they didn't tell me the origin on this one)”


    The Cosmetic Calcuator website seems to be wrong because it doesn’t factor in the fact that Chanel started their code new again at the start of the millenium.
    So it seems like your batch code might be off by a few months. For example:

    You have batch code 70xx = Oct. 2013, I have batch 70xx = January 2014.

    You have batch code 20xx = August 2009, I have batch 20xx = November 2009....etc.

    Just wanted to let you know of this ‘alternative’ date timeline which began anew in the first month of the new millenium.
    I really love your blogpost though and I will be using parts of it for reference, so thank you.

    RispondiElimina
    Risposte
    1. Thank you for your compliments!
      Let's go and see the cosmetic calculators, today january 16th 2014.:
      check cosmetics net : 70xx = october 2013
      cosmetic wizard :70xx = october 2005
      check fresh 70xx = october 2013.
      I think all calculators messed up dates and batches...
      Probably you are right, Chanel restarted countduring year 2000. Anyway difference between your data are +/- 3 months only. so, for our purposes in determining "vintage" perfumes, it's still okay.
      Thank you for your precise and detailed post!

      Elimina
  3. ciao ho trovato una bottiglia 125 ml splash di egoiste ha solo il batch code senza green dot ,non reca lista ingredienti ,batch code 3313 ....sbaglio o secondo i calcoli sarebbe del 1993 ........ credo di aver fatto un bell'affare non deludermi...

    RispondiElimina
    Risposte
    1. infatti dovrebbe essere del 1993, e trattarsi di una vecchia scatola ancora non aggiornata. In ogni caso se è del 1993, sulla scatola la scritta sul frontale "Eau de Toilette" dovrebbe essere immediatamente al di sopra alla scritta CHANEL. Dopo il 1995 la scritta Eau de Toilette va a finire in basso, sotto a CHANEL.

      Elimina
  4. la scritta eau de toilette sul frontale sta sopra chanel l'ho comprato apposta per questo ,felicissimo perchè non pensavo proprio di trovarlo in una profumeria

    RispondiElimina
    Risposte
    1. quello che si dice avere una gran fortuna! Comunque, è assai probabile che i profumi Chanel degli anni 90 non abbiano subito pesanti riformulazioni, quindi -almeno negli anni 90- i flaconi con le scritte "sopra" o "sotto" siano assai simili tra loro.

      Elimina
  5. Hey
    I have a bottle of Egoiste Platinum number 1920. Which one will be the year 1992?

    RispondiElimina
    Risposte
    1. Hi, "1920" could be dated to the end of 1992 (regarding "Platinum Egoiste", it's one of the first bottles produced, and sold in 1993, the official year of launch), or 2001, or 2009.
      Check details on bottle and box to know the exact date.

      Elimina
  6. Hi,

    I have a splash bottle of Cristalle EDT, box is similar to the No. 5 from your pictures, with London and some postal code written at the bottom.

    There's also a bar code but no green dot, and no list of ingredients, so it should have been produced between 1990 and 1992. But the batch code is 3612, which leads me to April 1994 ? Am I doing something wrong ?

    Many thanks for your blog !

    Kristina

    RispondiElimina
    Risposte
    1. Hi Kristina,
      You are right: it's year 1994. Simply, Chanel used old boxes until the end of stocks. This is quite a common practice in perfumery in order to save costs.
      Andre

      Elimina
  7. Hello

    What a fantastic post - thank you So much! I have a bottle of Cristalle EDT which I would love your help with! I have a 100ml bottle of Cristalle EDT, black plastic lid, no box. I can’t find a batch code on any of the sides near the base, but the bottom is embossed with ‘CHANEL’ and then underneath that ‘100ml’ and under that ‘3.4 FL. OZ.' and then finally, underneath that simply the number ‘6’. I own many Chanel bottles, but I have never seen anything like this although it certainly smells like the real perfume. I would love your help!

    Thanks very much,
    Polly

    RispondiElimina
    Risposte
    1. Sorry, there are too few elements for evaluting such a bottle.... anyway, a strange thing it's the missing code on the rear of the glass. Regards, Laura.

      Elimina
  8. Buongiorno Andre e buongiorno a tutti.
    Ho trovato ieri in una profumeria un Pour Monsieur. Non ha barcode,sul retro c'è scritto CONT. 118ml e davanti c'è scritto dall'alto verso il basso: EAU - Pour Monsieur - CHANEL - Paris.
    Avete un'idea di che periodo è?

    RispondiElimina
    Risposte
    1. Buongiorno a te!
      Se sulla scatola dek pM non leggi da nessuna parte la sigla "EMB" seguita da cinque o sei cifre, il profumo è sicuramernte prima del 1980 e merita l'acquisto a occhi chiusi. Se trovi EMB ma senza codice a barre, è 1980-1990. Vale sempre l'acquisto!
      ciao,
      Laura

      Elimina

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